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14-01-2010, 22:50
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15-01-2010, 00:37
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15-01-2010, 12:58
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17-01-2010, 23:15
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21-01-2010, 23:09
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23-01-2010, 20:28
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15-01-2010, 11:11
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22-01-2010, 00:50
   
 
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22-01-2010, 10:30
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23-01-2010, 12:43
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15-01-2010, 01:10
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15-01-2010, 11:38
   
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15-01-2010, 11:40
   
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15-01-2010, 12:09
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15-01-2010, 12:23
   
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15-01-2010, 15:04
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15-01-2010, 16:26
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15-01-2010, 16:43
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16-01-2010, 18:44
   
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16-01-2010, 19:29
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16-01-2010, 19:32
   
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16-01-2010, 19:41
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17-01-2010, 00:50
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17-01-2010, 07:46
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18-01-2010, 01:01
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  #44  
18-01-2010, 08:31
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18-01-2010, 22:28
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  #46  
21-01-2010, 20:41
zragon13
  zragon13 zragon13  
 
: 19.09.05
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43 speedy_7 " "
I just read the part in Aviram Barkai's book that describes the ambush of Pluga Dalet where Eran Avrutzki is killed and it indeed agrees with what Speedy wrote above

Below is the monument by the side of the road between Tel Saki and Juchader that I assume marks the place he was killed



Below is the view of the area taken from the site to the north. The hill with the tower is the Juchadar/Givat Urcha and the dark mountain behind it is Tel Fares


_____________________________________
Sorry for the English... I was a bad student in Hebrew school
  #47  
15-01-2010, 11:56
   
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  #48  
15-01-2010, 14:33
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15-01-2010, 15:47
   
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  #50  
15-01-2010, 22:18
   
 
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17-01-2010, 00:56
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  #52  
17-01-2010, 12:17
zragon13
  zragon13 zragon13  
 
: 19.09.05
: 1,280
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The old bunker (its eastern side) already appears behind the halftrack in the photo posted by Yosifoon above

Here are some photos from Tel A Saki that I took in 2007

The old bunker - side facing North.












Is the current location of the old bunker behind the hilltop the same as during the war or was it originally placed on top of the hill and just moved to its current spot when the new outpost was built?





I realize that the sign says that the bunker was on the top of the hill, but the drawing depicts what looks like some kind of "aquariam" observation structure that doesn't seem like part of this bunker. I also dosn't make sense to me that the bunker would be situated on the top where it would be in a direct line of view and fire from the enemy?






Photo taken from West with the old bunker's current location circled




Photo of tel from the beginning of the road to the west. Does anyone know if this BTR was one of the vehicles of the rescue force that was destroyed
?



_____________________________________
Sorry for the English... I was a bad student in Hebrew school

" zragon13 17-01-2010 12:30.
  #53  
17-01-2010, 13:59
  100 100  
 
: 31.03.05
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  #54  
17-01-2010, 23:42
  77 77  
 
: 06.07.08
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52 zragon13 "[left]The old bunker (its..."
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Is the current location of the old bunker behind the hilltop the same as during the war or was it originally placed on top of the hill and just moved to its current spot when the new outpost was built?

. , :

['. I also dosn't make sense to me that the bunker would be situated on the top where it would be in a direct line of view and fire from the enemy?


Photo of tel from the beginning of the road to the west. Does anyone know if this BTR was one of the vehicles of the rescue force that was destroyed
?

( ), .


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  #55  
21-01-2010, 21:11
zragon13
  zragon13 zragon13  
 
: 19.09.05
: 1,280
54 77 " !"
I found some additional photos that I had taken of signs from the site that might help shed some light on the actual layout of the outpost during 1973












Below I tried to match up a current Google map satelitte image of the Tel with the map drawing on the second sign









Judging from this, I think that you are correct about the old "bunker HaLochamim" not actually being on top of the hill, but rather located where the current basalt rock-covered bunker is today, hidden and protected from the East, at the base of the hilltop.







Apparently only two or three covered fighting/observation positions were located on the actual hilltop. I guess that this makes the old bunker's current location quite near to where it originally stood during the war at the parking lot level, and not B'rosh HaTel like the sign on it says



This last shot lets you imagine what the view from a tank on Tel A Saki covering the area to the north, where hundreds of Syrian tanks and other forces had penetrated between them and Outpost 116, would have been
Note Tel Fares to the north. Juchadar is just below it, above the short section of black road that is visible
_____________________________________
Sorry for the English... I was a bad student in Hebrew school

" zragon13 21-01-2010 21:40.
  #56  
21-01-2010, 21:49
  77 77  
 
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  #57  
21-01-2010, 21:57
zragon13
  zragon13 zragon13  
 
: 19.09.05
: 1,280
56 77 " , "
In Barkai's book it is mentioned that the outpost's Nachal force also included a BTR and a driver.

So I still wonder if the BTR is one of these Israeli vehicles, even if the current location is not exactly where it was destroyed
?
_____________________________________
Sorry for the English... I was a bad student in Hebrew school
  #58  
21-01-2010, 22:31
  77 77  
 
: 06.07.08
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  #59  
21-01-2010, 23:01
zragon13
  zragon13 zragon13  
 
: 19.09.05
: 1,280
58 77 ", ...."
I checked some photos I took of the interior but there are no markings or any paint left. I don't remember if I saw any traces of IDF style fixtures. No big holes but all the interior is destroyed and completely rusted, perhaps as a result of being burned out as you can see below
I wouldn't even know what an IDF version is suppossed to look like. I was surprized to read that Gdud 50 was equipped with these and not the standard halftracks


BTW, I suppose that if you had been born 30 years later that these guys listening to the lecture about the battles would have been your buddys


_____________________________________
Sorry for the English... I was a bad student in Hebrew school
  #60  
21-01-2010, 23:21
  77 77  
 
: 06.07.08
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BTW, I suppose that if you had been born 30 years later that these guys listening to the lecture about the battles would have been your buddys





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17-02-2023, 12:12
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14-03-2014, 22:54
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17-01-2010, 20:13
   
 
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17-01-2010, 23:53
  romi4 romi4  
 
: 11.08.09
: 559
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18-01-2010, 02:28
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: 11.08.09
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18-01-2010, 04:28
   
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Would it not be easier in that case for the government to dissolve the people and elect another?" -Bertolt Brecht

I remember very vividly, a few months after the famous pacifist resolution at the Oxford Union visiting Germany and having a talk with a prominent leader of the young Nazis. He was asking about this pacifist motion and I tried to explain it to him. There was an ugly gleam in his eye when he said, "The fact is that you English are soft". Then I realized that the world enemies of peace might be the pacifists - Robert Hamilton Bernays -
  #67  
18-01-2010, 06:50
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: 11.08.09
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Would it not be easier in that case for the government to dissolve the people and elect another?" -Bertolt Brecht

I remember very vividly, a few months after the famous pacifist resolution at the Oxford Union visiting Germany and having a talk with a prominent leader of the young Nazis. He was asking about this pacifist motion and I tried to explain it to him. There was an ugly gleam in his eye when he said, "The fact is that you English are soft". Then I realized that the world enemies of peace might be the pacifists - Robert Hamilton Bernays -
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Would it not be easier in that case for the government to dissolve the people and elect another?" -Bertolt Brecht

I remember very vividly, a few months after the famous pacifist resolution at the Oxford Union visiting Germany and having a talk with a prominent leader of the young Nazis. He was asking about this pacifist motion and I tried to explain it to him. There was an ugly gleam in his eye when he said, "The fact is that you English are soft". Then I realized that the world enemies of peace might be the pacifists - Robert Hamilton Bernays -
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Would it not be easier in that case for the government to dissolve the people and elect another?" -Bertolt Brecht

I remember very vividly, a few months after the famous pacifist resolution at the Oxford Union visiting Germany and having a talk with a prominent leader of the young Nazis. He was asking about this pacifist motion and I tried to explain it to him. There was an ugly gleam in his eye when he said, "The fact is that you English are soft". Then I realized that the world enemies of peace might be the pacifists - Robert Hamilton Bernays -
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Would it not be easier in that case for the government to dissolve the people and elect another?" -Bertolt Brecht

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Would it not be easier in that case for the government to dissolve the people and elect another?" -Bertolt Brecht

I remember very vividly, a few months after the famous pacifist resolution at the Oxford Union visiting Germany and having a talk with a prominent leader of the young Nazis. He was asking about this pacifist motion and I tried to explain it to him. There was an ugly gleam in his eye when he said, "The fact is that you English are soft". Then I realized that the world enemies of peace might be the pacifists - Robert Hamilton Bernays -
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10-08-2011, 00:09
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10-08-2011, 04:02
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08-02-2016, 01:27
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28-10-2011, 00:32
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20-11-2011, 16:59
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30-06-2020, 18:19
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